Talk:Tommy Vercetti
Tommy Vercetti not a Gangster? I would like to object to Tommy Vercetti not being considerd a Gangster, because i believe that he is very much a Gangster, first off he is a Drug Lord, he has murderd god knows how many people, he is involved in Organized Crime, AND he once had ties to the Mafia. I think with all that and more he should be considerd a Gangster. George 04:52, 22 May 2007 (BST) :We're not saying he isn't a gangster, we just said that protagonists didnt need to be in Category:Gangsters - mainly because they aren't loyal to one gang, and they don't do everything as part of their gangs - they tend to work on their own. Do you think it would be useful to have them listed there? If you do, then go for it. Xenon (?) 09:56, 22 May 2007 (BST) :Actually, technically, he was a mobster (before Vice City), a small time crook (early Vice City missions), then a gangster (Cubans, Haitians, Ricardo Diaz, Bikers), and then a drug lord (mansion missions and beyond).GSFOG14 06:38, March 21, 2012 (UTC) Year of Birth Is there anything to indicate that he was born in 1951? I can't ever remember seeing this information. A-Dust 17:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :It's an assumption made by the fact that he spent 15 years in prison, which began in 1971. For some reason, there is the assumption that he was 20 years old when sent to prison, based on some rudimentary discussion of his mentioning that he didn't go to Vietnam as a result of his incarceration...not sure where that came from, but it's probably from one of the fan sites. Eganio''Talk'' 22:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC) ::So surely, unless it is a game guide or something like that, the information should be removed from the article. Has anyone got the GTA Vice City game guide? A-Dust 22:08, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :::I've got the original packaging back at home (PS2). Is it in there? Eganio''Talk'' 22:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC) ::::I mean the walkthrough book, otherwise known as the strategy guide, which I've only just thought of. I don't remember anything about any character in the VC game guide, just about the city itself. A-Dust 22:21, 20 July 2008 (UTC) :::::I have the Vice City Game Guide, and it states under the Characters section that Tommy Vercetti is 35 years old as of Vice City, so logically he would be born in 1951. Add on 35 years, and boom, 1986. MasterChief117 22:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Colt17 has stated that he read it on Wikipedia. That may be so, but that doesn't make it correct. Clever estimates are also out of the question. Unless we get some form of proof from in-game (saying the year of birth, or an age at a particular time) then we can't display it as factual information. If it is REALLY important, you COULD have a section discussing what his age MIGHT be, but I don't recommend we do that. Gboyers talk 14:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC) :DanceWithLance provided this as "proof" of Tommy's age/D.O.B., but it's just from another wiki article on another wiki website, so can it really be a reliable source? Peronally I don't think it is. - Hardrock182 14:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC) ::Can someone prove Tommy's birth date before removing the "verify" template?--'Spaceeinstein' 03:34, November 26, 2009 (UTC) "Thomas" At what point has the name 'Thomas' ever been used to refer to Tommy Vercetti? I don't recall a single instance of it. I am removing that from the article. McJeff (talk this way)/ 16:47, August 13, 2011 (UTC) Play the game again. If you listen properly you will hear Colonel Cortez call him "Thomas" on a phone call. NT92 16:49, August 13, 2011 (UTC) San Andreas It says in the 'aftermath' section that a character with a strikingly similiar appearance to Tommy can be seen in a mission in SA. If this is true can someone provide a link to a video of it, or at least the name of the mission? Angrydhal 20:34, September 26, 2011 (UTC) It was Claude and it was the mission "Wu Zi Mu". Claude looked a bit different then he did in GTA 3, (he is 9 years younger in GTA:SA) and he looks a bit like TommyGSFOG14 06:42, March 21, 2012 (UTC) Murders committed I personally think this section of the article should be deleted. Not just for Tommy, but for any GTA protagonist. For two reasons. #Any protagonist will have to kill hundred of unnamed gangsters and fighters during the missions. #Any player has probably killed hundreds of pedestrians and bystanders outside the missions. So I think it's not just useless information, but inaccurate information to boot, and that's why I've deleted it. If you object discuss here. Jeff (talk| ) 17:38, October 2, 2011 (UTC) :I don't think they are useless sections per say, what makes them seem useless it the misleading Murders Comitted headings. If we bring the sections back under the heading of Characters murdered by "Protagonists name" then they would relevant. Dan the Man 1983 21:21, October 2, 2011 (UTC) ::I still think they're not beneficial and should go, but since your change makes them no longer inaccurate I won't remove them again unless there's consensus to do so. Jeff (talk| ) 22:36, October 2, 2011 (UTC) ::A com on don't delete the murder section. :: Tommy in VCS trailer? Watch the second trailer for GTA Vice City Stories, at around the 0:51 mark, theres a man who is no doubt Tommy, but story wise, its impossible, as in 1984, he didnt know Diaz, and he was still in jail in Liberty. What is with this? DominicRiddle (talk) 18:32, December 24, 2012 (UTC) Tommy isn't the only one Niko also went to prison in Europe as he stated in Harboring a Grudge and during a conversation with Dwayne LucasVercetti (talk) 14:43, January 26, 2013 (UTC) Thomas Vercetti There isn't any proof of Thomas being his name. Tommy can be used as a given name according to Wikipedia and Rockstar has never, ever referred to him as Thomas. Only person who refers to him like that is Cortez, and it may just be because he thinks that that's what Tommy is short for (similarly to how Tom Goldberg calls Niko Bellic Nikolai during Final Interview). I wanted to bring this up here, on the talk page, before I remove it, as I've looked through the edit history and noticed that someone has already tried correcting this, but the changes were removed by Kiwismurf. SlashM, 15:28, May 10, 2019 (UTC) The test for the expansion of a shortened name to a full name is two-fold. #Is the full name ever used in the game, if not, then evaluate condition 2: #Is the shortened name ever a legitimate name by itself or can it be a possible shortening of multiple full names (Thomas, Tommaso etc). In the case of Tommy, Thomas is used in game, even if it is only once, so it can be documented. Speculation over whether the use in-game was valid or not is irrelevant. Smurfy: illuminate - communicate - 10:22, May 11, 2019 (UTC) :Thing is, Tommy is not only referred to as Thomas, but also as Tomás by Cortez. Why is Thomas good enough to be considered his real name, but not Tomás? SlashM, 11:59, May 15, 2019 (UTC) Nevermind, UltimateNinja's message made me remember this discussion. I still think that Tommy's name isn't Thomas, but I checked the subtitles of all of Cortez's missions and the subtitles refer to Tommy as Thomas, not Tomás, so this point is invalid. SlashM, 20:21, January 15, 2020 (UTC) ::Basically what Slash said. Only Cortez used this name (a few times), either because he thinks it's his full name or he's simply using it as a friendly nickname, whatever. Considering that 1) Tommy never introduced himself as "Thomas" and 2) nobody other Cortez (be it an in-game character, news, or official GTA website) ever referred to him as such, there is no reason to assume that this is his actual name; that's just speculation. And for the record, yes, "Tommy" does indeed exist as a legitimate name. 19:27, January 15, 2020 (UTC) What we are talking about here is a simple case of Facts supplied in the game by Rockstar vs Speculation by us for the reasons they are, or are not, in the game. *Fact - Tommy is repeatedly called Thomas by another character in the game. **Speculation - What motives does Cortez have for calling him Thomas? e.g. Is it simple ignorance/assumption or deliberate mis-use to put Tommy in his place as an underling? There is no evidence to suggest he mis-names any of the other people he talks to. *Fact - Tommy never reacts negatively to being called Thomas at any time, even when it is on the phone and Cortez cannot see him if he shows dissent. (I know this tiptoes over the line of "What didn't happen" but it is kind of relevant here). **Speculation - Why doesn't he correct Cortez if he's getting it wrong? Is he just showing Mafia-style respect as an underling? *Fact - Cortez also uses a Spanish pronunciation that sounds more like Tomás, but subtitles still use the Anglicized "Thomas". **Speculation - He is trying to make it sound like "Tom-Arse" or it's just the voice actor overdoing a Spanish accent inadvertently. *Fact - The VCPI record uses Tommy. **Speculation - The VCPI self-acknowledges it is incomplete and awaiting on parole board info from LC. *Fact - Nobody else ever calls him Thomas. **Speculation - Why not? *Fact - Thomas is the root of the shortened Tommy (along with many other shortened forms). *Fact - Tommy can be (albeit rarely) a standalone full christian name that doesn't have a root form. If we start second-guessing every fact that Rockstar presents to us, the wiki will quickly fall down a very deep rabbit hole of speculative content (MW anyone?). Slash makes a good point about the possible parallel with the Niko/Nikolai situation used by Tom Goldberg, but I see a big difference there with Goldberg actually asking it as a question. "Hello Niko. What's that short for... Nikolai?". Niko doesn't respond either way (since he's only there to kill him) so Goldberg keeps using it since the situation is a more formal interview. Now, in this specific case, I believe the only places Thomas needs to be used are: #Lead line: Thomas "Tommy" Vercetti is a character... #Infobox: Name. #Cortez's page detailing how he refers to Tommy. #The specific mission pages where Cortez actually refers to him as Thomas. Everywhere else in the article and elsewhere on the wiki, he should just be called Tommy. And there is certainly no suggestion that the page name should ever change :) Smurfy: illuminate - communicate - 21:48, January 15, 2020 (UTC)